An "unpopular" 4th of July Post... Why this is Not a Day to Celebrate...

I want to start out this post with a huge disclaimer... what I am about to say may sound radical or irrational to some (probably not so much on this site!). I also want to say that I have a great respect for those who differ with me on this issue that I am about to discuss, so I invite your ideas on this post as well. Finally, I have a great deal of respect for those who are Christians and who 'support' military and our troops. Those who serve our country (although I may disagree with it to some extent from my standpoint theologically) deserve respect for their sacrifices and I am glad to have some friends who have served or are serving in the armed forces.

With all of that said, I have been struggling with the idea of the 4th of July for the past year or so. Each year we get together and remember the day when America won her freedom. We reenact the story through live action plays, we set off fireworks as a display of joy, and we sing prideful songs about our freedom from oppression. In many ways, we treat Independence Day like the Jews in Jesus' day (and even to this day) remember the exodus from Egypt. Now here is the issue I have: No matter what position you hold in regards to being a Christian and war (I happen to lean towards a nonviolent stance), I cannot justify glorifying the 'wining' of our independence from our friends across the pond, even from a 'just war theory' viewpoint. How can we celebrate that we killed thousands upon thousands of people (MANY OF WHICH WORSHIPPED THE SAME GOD!) over the fact that they were taxing our mammon with out giving us representation in parliament or whatever?!!!!! This seems just plain wrong!!!!! Yes, there might be some kind of justice issue here, but the greater injustice to taxation without representation is the violent killing of our brethren.

Is there anyone out there who agrees with me or am I just crazy [if you disagree take it easy on the crazy comments (-; ]? If you agree, why? If not, tell me your thoughts on this historic day and Christian biblical theology.

ORIGINALLY POSTED @ http://groansfromwithin.blogspot.com/2009/07/unpopular-4th-of-july-...

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Permalink Reply by Steven McDade on July 4, 2009 at 1:32pm: You are not crazy. Last 4th we attended a different kind of celebration, one that was dependent on God and his creation.
Very different and moving. What most americans fail to understand is that this country was not built on independence, but on commerce. Looking for a way to make money.
There is a documentary on the 4 DVD set of Pearl Harbor that traces the time line from just before the founding of the nation and how we brought something to the far east that the culture there did not want.
This is part of the reason that USAers are not thought well of in the world.

Those that KNOW Jesus understand that ALL cultures are a part of the creation and we need to understand whos image we are made in.

WE, the USA, have been made in the image of a people that came to get out from under an oppressive King. Now we have a so called government that is "by the people, for the people" and most of them had "money" when they founded the nation. Also, this "Christian nation" is a lie! Go read the entire Declaration of Independence and see that, if the founders were correct, that we can start the country all over again.
Most of what they found wrong about King George, has happened again because we are still imitating a governmental system that doesn't quite work.

What kind will? One that recognizes the God of Abraham, the Father of Jesus.
This nation was not founded on Christian values, though some do match up. There is a different culture that will define all humans. And it is not found in the man made laws.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by dlw on July 13, 2009 at 6:55pm: The US people are thought better of than our gov't....

and the principle of no taxation without representation is the raison d'etre of the crux of the valid complaints against our own
imperialism/imperialistic tendencies.

There was a good book on int'l politics from 1776 to 1800 that shows that the US revolution in context and how only in the US did movements for political reform gain roots and that it wasn't by "rebellion" but rather by a change in our national character, ie. (the book doesn't go into this) the 2nd great awakening...

I celebrate the 4th of July as a patriot, not a nationalist. I see the signers of the declaration of independence as having willed to lay down their lives in their call for local autonomy, the spirit of such was part of the "secular" after-shock from the 1st great awakening. As for the killing of British soldiers, there's a diff between killing professional soldiers and killing civilians. The former have chosen a life where their lvies are in danger and they themselves are committed to killing those on the opposing side. To kill is not always to murder, just as to take is not always to steal.... The diff, biblically-speaking, is that we shd expect the cycle of violence to be surmounted neither thru killing nor taking property(aka thru taxes and changes in regulations), but when real progress is made possible by the power of God then it will affect both the legit uses of state power, including property-rights.

So my view is that I'm glad for the 4th of July, but wish the context of it and its aftermath was better understood. As I am not a fan of the fact of US Exceptionalism and it seems the speficity of the 2nd great awakening in paving a way for peaceful reforms had a great deal to do with htat.
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Permalink Reply by Kari Risher on July 17, 2009 at 11:21am: I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the broken treaties, oppression, and genocide of the people who were here before us - the native americans. At what price did this country stake its claim to a society where everyone has the right to "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness"?

When we fail to recognize the complete self-centeredness, and sinful aspects of any fully human endeavor (like the creation of a nation-state) and then place that before as if it is a thing to be worshipped, we are in big trouble.

That said, I understand the desire to recognize and celebrate the positive values this nation embodies and the progress we believe we've made towards God's coming shalom by embracing those values.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by dlw on July 17, 2009 at 7:40pm: Kari Risher said:
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the broken treaties, oppression, and genocide of the people who were here before us - the native americans. At what price did this country stake its claim to a society where everyone has the right to "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness"? Who doesn't celebrate a person's b-day because of their many failures in life?

We did terrible things and some other things that I am proud of, not because my country is the bestest in the whole wide world, but because I view it like my family: I have a special attachment to it that I don't have with other families.

When we fail to recognize the complete self-centeredness, and sinful aspects of any fully human endeavor (like the creation of a nation-state) and then place that before as if it is a thing to be worshipped, we are in big trouble.

I'd avoid using the qualifier complete in creating a nation-state. Statesmanship is never completely self-centered, neither is it shorn of self-interestedness. I'd say, if you're gonna say "God Bless America" be sure to add "if we deserve it" afterwards...

That said, I understand the desire to recognize and celebrate the positive values this nation embodies and the progress we believe we've made towards God's coming shalom by embracing those values.

I'd go further and say, we did a better job of things in the first three half-centuries of our country than the last one... and a significant portion of the ultimate responsiblity for our failings surely can be laid at the failings of US_American Christians.

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