Why are we all so interested in the teachings of a good man?? Is Jesus God? this is an apologetic
http://www.biblicaldefense.org/Writings/is_jesus_god.htm accesssed 3.11.09
Is Jesus God?
"Old Testament predictions concerning the Messiah—Daniel 9:26; Isaiah 42:4; Isaiah 53—are enough to prove that only Jesus of Nazareth meets the messianic qualifications. Daniel 9:26 stated that the Messiah would be executed before the destruction of the temple (which occurred in 70AD). Isaiah 42:4 teaches that the Gentile nations would expectantly await Christ's law. Isaiah 53 declares that the Jews would reject their Messiah. Jesus of Nazareth is the only person in history who has fulfilled all three of these prophecies. He claimed to be the Jewish Messiah and was crucified around 30AD (forty years before the temple was destroyed), the Jews rejected Him, and He received a wide Gentile following.
The life of an insane man would not be prophesied. It is also unlikely that these predictions would refer to an insane man as the Messiah (God's annointed one) and "the mighty God" (Isaiah 9:6). More than 200 years before Jesus' birth, His life and works were predicted. He fulfilled these prophecies and performed many miracles. It is absurd for someone to call Jesus insane. To accept His claims is the only reasonable response.
The historical evidence shows that Jesus claimed to be God and proved it by raising Himself from the dead. History shows these claims are not legends, and that He was not a liar, insane, or merely a great man. Therefore, Jesus of Nazareth is God."
The following ancient creed was formulated and proclaimed by the first generation church. It declares Jesus to be God and Savior, and instructs all creation to surrender to His Lordship:
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:5-11).
"Several of these ancient creeds teach the deity of Christ (Philippians 2:5-11; Romans 10:9-10; 1 Timothy 3:16). Therefore, there is no reason to doubt that Jesus claimed to be God. The leaders of the first generation church taught that Jesus is God, and they were willing to die for their testimony. Hence, there is no reason (apart from an a priori bias) to reject the claims of deity made by Christ in the New Testament. The Jews understood that Jesus was claiming to be God:
But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I myself am working." For this cause the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God (John 5:17-18)."
"A clear and articulate representation of His words would have been in His best interest; He was executed for blasphemy. (Mark 14:60-64)."
"You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins. . . . Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am (John 8:23-24; 58)."
"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make yourself out to be God" (John 10:30-33)."
"The apostles were Jesus' closest associates. They were more familiar with the teachings of Christ than anyone else and they called Jesus God (Matthew 1:23; John 1:1; John 20:28; Philippians 2:6; Colossians 2:9; Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1). This is further confirmation that Jesus did in fact claim to be God."
Is Jesus God?
"Old Testament predictions concerning the Messiah—Daniel 9:26; Isaiah 42:4; Isaiah 53—are enough to prove that only Jesus of Nazareth meets the messianic qualifications. Daniel 9:26 stated that the Messiah would be executed before the destruction of the temple (which occurred in 70AD). Isaiah 42:4 teaches that the Gentile nations would expectantly await Christ's law. Isaiah 53 declares that the Jews would reject their Messiah. Jesus of Nazareth is the only person in history who has fulfilled all three of these prophecies. He claimed to be the Jewish Messiah and was crucified around 30AD (forty years before the temple was destroyed), the Jews rejected Him, and He received a wide Gentile following.
The life of an insane man would not be prophesied. It is also unlikely that these predictions would refer to an insane man as the Messiah (God's annointed one) and "the mighty God" (Isaiah 9:6). More than 200 years before Jesus' birth, His life and works were predicted. He fulfilled these prophecies and performed many miracles. It is absurd for someone to call Jesus insane. To accept His claims is the only reasonable response.
The historical evidence shows that Jesus claimed to be God and proved it by raising Himself from the dead. History shows these claims are not legends, and that He was not a liar, insane, or merely a great man. Therefore, Jesus of Nazareth is God."
The following ancient creed was formulated and proclaimed by the first generation church. It declares Jesus to be God and Savior, and instructs all creation to surrender to His Lordship:
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:5-11).
"Several of these ancient creeds teach the deity of Christ (Philippians 2:5-11; Romans 10:9-10; 1 Timothy 3:16). Therefore, there is no reason to doubt that Jesus claimed to be God. The leaders of the first generation church taught that Jesus is God, and they were willing to die for their testimony. Hence, there is no reason (apart from an a priori bias) to reject the claims of deity made by Christ in the New Testament. The Jews understood that Jesus was claiming to be God:
But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I myself am working." For this cause the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God (John 5:17-18)."
"A clear and articulate representation of His words would have been in His best interest; He was executed for blasphemy. (Mark 14:60-64)."
"You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins. . . . Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am (John 8:23-24; 58)."
"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make yourself out to be God" (John 10:30-33)."
"The apostles were Jesus' closest associates. They were more familiar with the teachings of Christ than anyone else and they called Jesus God (Matthew 1:23; John 1:1; John 20:28; Philippians 2:6; Colossians 2:9; Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1). This is further confirmation that Jesus did in fact claim to be God."
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Cornelius on -
Read the gospel of Mark alone. Did Jesus himself claim to be God? Also, take a look at a synopsis of the gospels. Understand how the four books differ and how each one reflects an interpretation of historical events.
We don't simply have a collection of actual sayings of Jesus, who spoke Aramaic, not Greek, after all.
And check out Daniel 7:13-14
In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Yeshua referenced this and made explicit before the high priest that he is this Son of Man. But look at the text. It says he approached God and was given authority by YHWH over all creation.
Concerning the resurrection, God raised Jesus. This finds support in the following biblical verses: Acts 2:32, Acts 4:10, Acts 13:30, Galatians 1:1, Colossians 2:12, and 1 Thessalonians 1:10
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Permalink Reply by Scott Peterson on -
I believe that one of the central roots of disagreement between you and Andrew is your different ways of reading and understanding scripture. From the few posts I have read my guess is that perhaps you two fall in to these to categories.
Leeann affirms Biblical inerrancy as well as Biblical infallibility .
Andrew does not affirm Biblical inerrancy but does affirm Biblical infallibility.
Would these assumptions be correct?
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Cornelius on
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My study of the Bible itself led me to reject both notions. I do not think, for example, that 1 Timothy (which is probably pseudo-Pauline) 2:12-15 reflects the intended meaning of the second creation myth in Genesis. The epistle reads, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety."
This notion of a fall that places the blame on women is abhorrent to me. And it doesn't account for what we now know of human origins, including the evolutionary mechanism God employs in His creation.
The easiest way I know of demonstarting the inadequacies of both theories (inerrancy and infallibility) is a simple consultation with a synopsis of the gospels. People tend not to see the contradictions and competing claims because they read the books separately, not in parallel.
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Permalink Reply by Scott Peterson on
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I agree with most of your claims. However, while a lack of synopsis of the gospels is without a doubt a problem for inerrancy, it is not necessarily a problem for infallibility.
I can not affirm Biblical inerrancy because it relies on some kind of scientific/quantitative analysis of scripture which none of the books of the Bible were written for.
I can affirm Biblical infallibility because it is not a scientific statement regarding the accuracy of the specific words. It is a claim that God has given us scripture as a witness to his relationship with humanity and that s/he will use if for that purpose. In this regard, it will not fail and is therefore infallible
Andrew Cornelius said:My study of the Bible itself led me to reject both notions. I do not think, for example, that 1 Timothy (which is probably pseudo-Pauline) 2:12-15 reflects the intended meaning of the second creation myth in Genesis. The epistle reads, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety."
This notion of a fall that places the blame on women is abhorrent to me. And it doesn't account for what we now know of human origins, including the evolutionary mechanism God employs in His creation.
The easiest way I know of demonstarting the inadequacies of both theories (inerrancy and infallibility) is a simple consultation with a synopsis of the gospels. People tend not to see the contradictions and competing claims because they read the books separately, not in parallel.
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Cornelius on
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The way I understand infallibility, Scott, is that the Bible is perceived to be entirely and completely true in all that is said therein by its many authors. That is why I cited the passage from 1 Timothy. I do not think the argument there is infallible but rather a fallible human interpretation of a creation myth.
I almost went to Fuller a few years ago. It subscribes to infallibility:
Scripture is an essential part and trustworthy record of this divine self-disclosure. All the books of the Old and New Testaments, given by divine inspiration, are the written word of God, the only infallible rule of faith and practice. They are to be interpreted according to their context and purpose and in reverent obedience to the Lord who speaks through them in living power. (from http://fuller.edu/about-fuller/mission-and-history/statement-of-fai...).
I just couldn't continue to ignore certain things anymore. Retaining my view would have meant ignoring my conscience and everything I was learning about the Bible, history, and the natural world.
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Cornelius on
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Sorry. Back to the topic of christology. I think this article is quite good: http://www.tentmaker.org/books/SpiritOfTheWord/017TheDivinityOfChri...
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Permalink Reply by Scott Peterson on
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Although I believe in the divinity of Jesus and I believe that the early Christians clearly worshiped him as God, I think the title of this post posits a false dichotomy.
Why are we all so interested in the teachings of a good man?? Is Jesus God?
I know a few people who do not believe that Jesus was God and yet do not believe he was merely a "good man." They believe he was the Messiah (Anointed One) chosen by God to redeem creation. They believe that he was filled with the Holy Spirit even before he was born and was therefore something much more than a "good man" although not YHWH.
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Cornelius on
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I agree, Scott. In the video I posted about biblical unitarianism, Anthony Buzzard makes that very point in addressing the similar "false dichotomy" presented by C.S. Lewis.
Why would you say they "clearly worshiped him as God." I don't think that is clear at all. If it were, I would still believe Jesus is God like I used to.
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